Taobao Choosing Sellers (How to)

Thurs 1:39pm  7 Jan 2016

Even though I know Chinese & have been buying for some years, choosing good sellers is not easy.  It takes experience to be able to pick items & sellers.

The choice to buy from a seller is based on several factors, several aspects. Not simple at all. The decision is formed from weighing in all these factors.

Newbies will definitely make mistakes if they just buy based on 1 aspect or surface value such as price or photos. Price alone is only 1 factor. It does not determine whether you will get what you see.

Previously, I was of the assumption that the higher the feedback score, the better. So, I only purchased from sellers with 4.8, 4.9, 5.0 scores.  But only recently, I found that the feedback score has to be considered together with other factors.

A seller rated 5 for all 3 areas under feedback scoring (item description accuracy, customer service & delivery speed) can still send items that are defective or not what is shown in the photos.

A seller with 4.5 or 4.6 or 4.7 scoring, can send a product that is excellent in quality with excellent delivery speed.

Recently, I took a risk out of my assumption & purchased twice from different sellers with 4.5, 4.6, 4.7 scores (together with considering other factors).  The prices were low enough to take a chance in finding out.  The items received turned out to be excellent & sellers delivered quickly. Amazing.  5/5.

I have noticed that China buyers understand that the feedback scoring is not entirely accurate. Often, you will see them buying from low score sellers,  surprisingly often reporting good feedback for items, delivery speed & customer service.

I have also recently purchased an item with zero reviews (after also considering other factors).  Previously, I have never purchased any item with zero reviews.  The item turned out to be surprisingly good.

So what are the several factors to consider when choosing?  You will have to pay for my experience & knowledge to know.

65daigou Goofs Up Again

(Update Wed 22 Jul 2015: Check out my guide on how to pick good Taobao sellers! http://therevolutioner.blogspot.sg/2015/07/how-to-pick-good-sellers-from-taobao.html).

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Following on "Why it's a bad idea to use 65daigou", this is my 4th time using their "service".

Why still using? Because need to.

Need to purchase several items for someone and there aren't other agents that I know and have used. Isn't much of a choice. This time, I know I'll have to put up with 65daigou again and be prepared for goof ups.

So, this time, when they did goof up, I was resigned to it. I had nothing to say, didn't even say a single word of complaint to the errand boy who goofed up, or to the person handling the website (maybe they are the same person?).

This time, I ordered several items. Everything arrived at their Shanghai warehouse and I hadn't ordered anything else before or after this. There wasn't anything to consolidate so there was no need to wait. Assuming the daigou people knew this, I waited for some notice to say they have airmailed out the items.

Nothing happened to the status of the items for a few days. So, I realized I had to inform them (no surprise) to airmail out.

Point 1: you need to tell them which items you want to ship/airmail out and when. Otherwise, the items will just sit there. To inform them, use the "Enquiries" tab at the top of the website.

The reply came 2~3 days later that the items were airmailed out already, with an estimated date of arrival.

Point 2: replies to enquiries are still slow (even now that they have supposedly returned to normal "efficiency". The replies are usually belated. I had an enquiry that wasn't attended to for weeks. And it was just a simple question of whether they could order from a certain China website. I thought they should be able to, since they take other China website orders, but the reply was that they can't.  So many weeks, just to say they can't.

The items arrived on schedule as they stated. So far so good. What would go wrong? 1) wrong items? 2) collection problem?

Always, when they input the calculation for their fees in my account, I try to do the Maths myself to see if there are any errors. So far, the calculations have been Ok--their counting is perfect when it comes to money.

I selected a collection date and time from their schedule choices and wondered if the items would be collected without a hitch.

When the time came, I could see from afar that something was wrong. There was only a small packet leaning against the wall, with a hard rectangular shape inside, beside the China errand boy who was playing his PSP. He always plays with it while waiting and looks childish. I don't care about that as long as he does the job well. But that is not the case.

That packet did not look like the items I ordered. When I got to him, he picked up the packet and handed it to me. It was knotted and I tried opening it. To his credit, he was nice enough to un-knot it for me and lo and behold, what have we here?

I put in my hand and flipped over a hard base. A handbag. I don't recall the order having a handbag in it.

Turning my hand deeper, I fished out a... something in a small, plastic, transparent wrapper with a sticker name tag attached to it. It wasn't my username. He saw it too.

"It's someone else's.", I said in English, refusing to speak in his language--Chinese. Instead, he had to speak in mine--English.

Daigou uses a white sticker with the username and weight of the item handwritten in blue pen on it. Most likely written by the Shanghai warehouse people before shipping out. So it would be easier for the SG side to sort the items upon arrival, saving them much work. A good system that should work well. But in the hands of ineptitude, even the best system would go wrong. No idea how it could have happened, but someone else's things were brought to the collection instead of mine.

More interesting was:

The errand boy was surprised. He looked at the big white plastic bag with the 65daigou logo on it. My username was stuck on it. So this was mine. Ok.

Then he looked at the item inside the bag that had a different name and he looked genuinely puzzled.

Too much PSP?

I imagined him tossing the items into the Daigou plastic bag without looking while playing.

The MRT station is actually quite inconvenient for me to travel to. I take a bus, then change to train to get there. It takes time and money to be there on time to collect the items.

Not only did he not bring the items, he was going to give me someone else's stuff with my username on it.

I didn't complain about a single thing. The errand boy showed me his clipboard with the usernames for customers to sign and any fees to be paid COD, and asked me to write with the pen he provided. I didn't know what he meant with the clipboard. He repeated for me to write, so I said, "Write what?".

He said, "Your address.".

Oh. So he was going to mail me the items to atone for the mistake. It was Saturday. I asked when was the delivery going to be? Sunday or...? Who is delivering? Are they using Singpost or himself?

He pointed to his white T-shirt with the 65daigou logo, saying himself or they, would deliver "before Tuesday". Will call first before delivering. I said I might not be home. What time? He gave a small smile that said I wasn't listening, and repeated, "We'll call first before we deliver.".

I wasn't pleased with that smile. His mistake and he dares to show annoyance at having to repeat? I heard what he said, but I needed a time.

I didn't ask if it was going to be free (their delivery charge is supposed to be $5 for those who prefer it). Since it was his mistake, of course it would be free, right? It didn't matter if it was or wasn't free. That wasn't the point. If it wasn't free upon delivery, I can simply scold the delivery person and remind him of the mistake.

The point was, whether they would actually deliver the items. It was hard to believe. I had serious doubts about it. It seemed beyond them.

I considered whether to give them my address, which I'd prefer to remain private. "How about I collect again?". I was willing to forfeit more time and money to collect again.

He looked into the distance, computing for a while before he said the earliest collection would be next Thursday.

Hmm... if home delivery, it would be before Tuesday (assuming they could do it). If pick up again at MRT, it would take a few more days. I needed the items as soon as possible, so I agreed to home delivery and wrote my address.

On Sunday, I received and missed a call. Assuming it was about the delivery, I SMSed to ask if it was the Daigou guy, adding that I just returned home and whether they would be delivering the next day. The reply was that they had wanted to deliver just at that time, but they could deliver next day and what time would I be home.

Since he asked what time I would be home, it meant I could give my own timing. I said 10am (feeling it would be a "no" since they were students and would be unable to deliver at at that time).

The reply was: The usual delivery timing is from 6.30pm to 10.30pm. Your area will be around 6.30 to 7.30pm.

Then why didn't he say so in the first place? Why ask what time I would be home?

Reminds me of a woman who wanted to rent out clothes rack. When she asked which MRT I would like to pick up, I told her my preference. Then she said she only do meet ups at a particular MRT station. *shakes head*

Why ask when the thing has already been fixed? It's just stupidity or ridiculous-ness.

With Daigou's timing, it meant I would have to wait for 1 hour. That's just ridiculous. I SMSed him to come on time between 6.30 to 6.45 pm because I will only be home at that time.

He said he would confirm with me "tomorrow" (meaning, the next day, Monday).

The next day, I was out, and waited for his confirmation till 4.15 pm. When there was nothing from him, I SMSed to ask if he would be delivering the items. I was thinking that if he was delivering, I would rush home to receive.

He replied: yes.

Another SMS: between 6.30 to 6.45?

I said: Ok.

Then an hour later, his message came, saying that he's sorry he wouldn't be able to deliver. "65Daigou will arrange another timing with you......thank you....cos the jobs are arranged by 65daigou.".

Odd, isn't it? What has "the jobs are arranged by 65daigou" got to do with the mistake with my items and the fixing of it?

I SMSed the guy who supposedly handles the administration of the website and told him his guy was unable to deliver. That being the case, I thought it's better to arrange for collection again at the MRT. So, could he put back the button option for re-arranging delivery in my account?

He did it. And after I selected the MRT and timing (again), I notified him and told him to tell his guy to bring the items and check that they are correct. He replied "Ok" with a smiley.

I was thinking, of course he had reason to smile. I had not even said a single word of complaint. I had quietly accepted and didn't make a fuss.

Frankly, what can a fuss do? The mistake was no surprise, it happened, no use making a fuss. That's what I get for using the service. Comes with it.

There was no other earlier collection timing or day. I wouldn't mind picking up at another MRT station if there was an earlier slot, but there wasn't. So, on Thursday, I made another trip to the same MRT at peak hour to collect the items.

I had wanted to avoid weekday evening hours because it's the most crowded time. That was why I had selected the collection to be a Saturday morning. But because the errand boy didn't bring the items on Saturday, I had to go again and jam with the Thursday evening crowd just to get the stuff.

I arrived 30 minutes early and waited till near to the time (unable to wait any longer), then SMSed the errand boy to inform him that I had arrived. No reply (no surprise).

Then he arrived with a trolley of boxes to the spot, and customers began gathering near. I hung around, but instead of attending to me first (he recognized me), he gave out stuff to the others first.

That was fine. I just wanted to see how he would respond. How he would make up for his mistake.

Last was me. I saw a big plastic bag inside a box with my username stuck on it. He took it out and apologized for the previous time (so he recognized me). I didn't say anything but was about to open the knot of the plastic bag.


Before this, I had made a note of the items that were supposed to be in there. A written note as well as visual images of the items in mind.

So, first, counting, there were 12 items. Correct.

While counting, I saw they were indeed the correct items.

This time, the advantage was on my side (that they would bother to offer delivery) likely because I hadn't yet paid for their shipping and service fees which came up to quite a lot. After I checked that all were correct, I paid the guy the exact amount.

Tip: Don't be in a hurry to pay the fees electronically. Pay only in cash when you get the items.
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Latest update 15 Jan Thurs 2015: http://therevolutioner.blogspot.sg/2015/01/65daigou-review-taobao-shopping-service.html

Why Using 65Daigou Is A Bad Idea (Review)

(Update Wed 22 Jul 2015: Check out my guide on how to pick good Taobao sellers! http://therevolutioner.blogspot.sg/2015/07/how-to-pick-good-sellers-from-taobao.html).

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10 April Sun 2011

"Buy the World for you"...?

I first started testing their service in March, in the midst of bad reviews, bad feedback and enquiries regarding slow order status, updates and delivery issues. Reason given by Daigou was that the media publicity had increased their customer numbers such that they were swamped with orders and temporarily unable to cope.

With apologies, they said after March, things would go back to "normal" efficiency.

Since I had never tried them before, I had no idea of what their "normal efficiency" meant. Nevertheless, the "CEO" seemed sincere in his apologies and refund promises.

The sincerity of their feedback replies was assuring enough for me to try them out (still with some doubts). I doubt everything and everyone from China.  It's not prejudice, but a fact that their ethics and product qualities are in question most of the time. They, however, will not admit or see it.

So far, I've not made effort to find a personal China purchasing service agent, as I do not believe any can be trusted. So, why bother.

But recently, there was a need to get one if possible and Google led me to the very first result. Easy.

The Daigou website is easy to use, easy to navigate, user-friendly especially for the EZ-buy function.

However, buyers beware.

So far, I have tried them 3 times. The 3rd time failed.

The first 2 times, the orders were slow to process. After payment, it took a while (1~2 days) for the status just to change to "payment received". After that, another wait (a week and more) for the status to change to "items ordered". There was a constant need to ask in their enquiries section whether items have been ordered and why the order status was hanging for so long. Any enquiries would take very long just to get a reply. This was the main gripe at the time due to--according to them--increased media-generated orders.

I let that pass because as mentioned, their feedback replies with apologies seemed sincere and honest. And past customers posted comments in the positive.

During that time, I kept watching their enquiries section for any problems, to get an idea of how they were functioning and how reliable. One customer was upset enough to use vulgarities in his enquiries. At that time, I felt the verbal abuse was unfair, but now, I think Daigou deserves it.

Even now, although their backlog of orders seems to have cleared, replies to enquiries are still very slow. And there is still the need to check whether items have been ordered. From the enquiries section, it appears that customers are not informed when items are out of stock or when there are problems with sellers until quite late.

For the 2 times, I received my items by going to their collection points at specified timings and dates.

This 3rd time, there were 2 items that were ordered, from 2 different Taobao sellers. One seller was uncontactable for more than a week and the amount was refunded in "MyPrePay" account in the Daigou website. Due to the delays in March, there was also some additional refund. Total in the prepay came up to $10.26.

The way they work is that there are 2 payments:

1) payment of goods upon ordering

2) payment of shipping and agent fee once items arrive in SG.

Upon arrival of the 2nd item, the shipping and agent fee was $9.53. This was automatically deducted from my prepay account. Previously, before there was refund in the prepay, I made payment through ATM transfer and cash on delivery.

Once this last step has been made (before goods received), the advantage is on their side. So, COD is the better option. Additionally, the guys almost forgot to collect the cash from me when I opted for COD. 

I chose to collect the item at an MRT from 11.30 to 12 pm on Saturday. Unfortunately, I left my hp at home, but thought it would be Ok as I had collected twice before, know where to collect and who to look out for.

I arrived at precisely 12 pm, but there was nobody standing at the usual location. After looking around the MRT for a few minutes, it seemed the Daigou guys had left (before the stated time). Twice so far, there would be 2 young guys wearing the "company" T-shirt and carrying white plastic bags with the logo. These are China nationals (young students) errand/delivery boys. It would seem unlikely they run the show. This time, they weren't around.

This was wasted time and money for me.

Unable to collect the items, I went home. That's when I saw the SMS and missed call. So, I SMSed that I turned up at 12 sharp but didn't see anyone. He replied that he had waited till 12.15 pm and if I would please come to Woodlands at 1.45 pm to collect again.

I replied that I was already home and wouldn't be able to make it to Woodlands in time. Are there other MRT stations he would be going later so I can try again?

He never replied.

This aside, I sent an enquiry at their website, mentioning what happened and whether they can send out the item using Singpost. I am still waiting for the reply.

Today, I sent an SMS to their "service" hp, asking whether they could send out via Singpost or must I collect again. The reply was brusque without even a "Hi":

"The arranged delivery was unsuccessful. pls arrange self collection at our office at 30 jalan puteh jerneh, 278051".

Googling for the location, it appears to be a semi-detached house along a narrow road. No idea where exactly it is.

1) The fact was that the guy was not at the location at 12 pm, regardless if he was there till 12.15 as he claimed.

2) It is only fair and polite to reply to my SMS regarding whether he would be at other MRT stations that day so I can try collecting again. If not possible, he could have at least replied. 

3) They have a courier service at $5 delivery. Why isn't there the option of courier delivery or Singpost since the first attempt was unsuccessful? In fact, sending my item via Singpost is perfectly possible and would cost less than they courier fee. Simply state how much delivery would cost. Why state collection at their office?

4) Given the various timings and days for MRT collections, shouldn't there be a second chance for collection?  

5) The prepay may seem convenient (for them obviously),  but there have been complaints that deductions are made without customer's approval or knowledge. In this case, the 2nd payment was automatically deducted from my prepay (no notice) when I'd rather have paid COD.

If the shipping and agent fee hadn't been automatically deducted from my prepay account, I think the result would have been different. Courier/Singpost delivery would have been possible. But now that everything has been paid for, it is now in their favor.

For every purchase, customers are encouraged to provide reviews at the end of receiving the goods. So far, I've never left any feedback as I wanted to see how it would go. If it continued to be good, my review would be continued usage of their service. If the service was bad, as now, I would not bother leaving a review, but would inform other people of why buying through them is a bad idea.

I believe it is a only a matter of time before more issues turn up. The Daigou website is still new, started about a year or so ago. Their replies to enquiries have already become less friendly. Simple things like my collection at 12 pm is not handled well.

There are customers who purchase several hundred dollars' worth of items from Taobao through the website. It is even said that local merchants use the service. How true that is, I can't verify. But given the simple lack of consideration and service for just 1 item that I purchased, I doubt their ethics and service standards.

Given the wastage of time and money in the first collection attempt, I do not wish to spend more time and money searching for their semi-detached "office". I am willing to pay for courier service delivery or Singpost for the item to be delivered to me, but as stated in the SMS reply today, collection would be at their office.

As this item was purchased on behalf of someone, the result is that I have to pay for the costs, including the forfeiture of the item.

There is $0.73 left in my prepay account, which I e-mailed to have it transferred to my bank account. Let's see how long that will take. It is not the money, but that I do not wish to have them profit further from even this little amount.

I run my own business and even when customers miss their first collections, their items can always be mailed to them (even if there is no second collection available).

To use 65Daigou was a bad idea in the first place. Testing it only proves it.

If you have been using the service without problems, don't say it too soon. :)

For those considering using the service, I'd say use at your own risk. Or don't use at all. 
For those spending hundreds of dollars buying Taobao items through them, I feel the risk for you. It's like freefall without net anytime.

Having purchased from Taobao a few times already, I can 100% say that the products are not as great as the photos. Be prepared for disappointment.

To buy from Taobao, you need to be Ok with:

a) Items falling apart the moment you receive it.

b) items not matching website photos

c) poor quality clothing that go out of shape after washing for the first time

d) clothing that is supposed to be new but looks worn with torn label tags

e) shoes with inner lining coming off and generally not really fitting

f) not receiving the items at all

g) bags and clothing with smell

Cheap comes at quite a heavy price if you don't get what you want/expect.

I've even seen someone asking if she/he can purchase furniture using the Daigou service. This really takes the cake for sheer silliness and whatever else (ridiculous-ness?). If even simple things like clothing can be bad, how bad can furniture be? :)  I'd rather just buy from Ikea (and even then, I avoid buying from Ikea).

Someone laughed when I mentioned it. Said: yeah, buy a table that comes with 3 legs. The other leg on the way, separate shipping fee.


Update: $0.73 refund was deposited into my bank a/c today 11 April, after sending my e-mail request yesterday (Sun). This was good and there was also notification reply in my e-mail.

Checking my account with them, there is a "re-arrange" delivery button available now where I can choose again delivery MRT, time and date. To confirm this is possible, I have SMSed their "service" hp number again. I wait to see if there will be reply.

As for the enquiry I sent earlier to their enquiries section (which would have been displayed at their website for viewership), there has been no reply as of today. Presumably, there is no need for reply since in the SMS, the person said to collect at their "office". I don't think they refused to post it since previously, they had even showed the "enquiry" with the vulgarities (unless it was to gain sympathy from other customers with their oddly tolerant replies).


Update 2: The SMS reply was not immediate, but some time within an hour. Regarding whether I can re-collect the item at their specified re-arranging delivery slot: 

"can, pls change it in the system by choosing "re-arrange delivery", we will arrange for you accordingly.".

Now why didn't they say that in the first place after the missed first collection? Such a simple alternative. Don't they know the system can arrange for "re-arrange delivery" and inform the customer of it?

I will try to collect again on that day and see how it goes.


Update 3:  Item picked up on the re-arranged date, time and same location.

Turned out they had changed the location of the collection. So that's why I wasn't able to find them that day. Usually, just some minutes before the collection, there will be an SMS informing customers of where they will be at. It occurred to me to check the previous message and saw that they had changed the location. That day, I didn't bring my hp and assumed they would be at the usual spot. 

If they had changed location, why didn't they state it in their website? 

Also, they had included an additional item in my plastic bag. It is not a free gift as there is the name of another customer attached to it. So... someone's order has landed in my bag. Someone is missing a grey, felt material, double-sided, wallet-style holder.


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To be honest, their prices are great. However, the disadvantages and their amateurish handling of orders are not so great.

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Update 4: Daigou is supposed to inspect the items before sending out to SG. However, as stated by a customer in enquiries section: "some goods weren't inspected. Some items are spoilt and even came with the wrong brand". 

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Latest update 15 Jan Thurs 2015: http://therevolutioner.blogspot.sg/2015/01/65daigou-review-taobao-shopping-service.html